Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joong on March 7, 2013 at 4:43pm

Comments/Rating disabled.

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Permalink Reply by Jon, Gallifrey's Mindfreak on March 7, 2013 at 4:52pm

To be fair, all her videos have the comments and rating disabled.


After the backlash from her Kickstarter, I certainly don't blame her.

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Permalink Reply by Joong on March 7, 2013 at 5:07pm

Is that supposed to make her any more credible...? The negative ratings and comments have always been in her videos way before she even started her own kickstarter.

You can't start critical analysis with the hopes of changing something by censoring everyone that disagrees/dislikes your content. Well, I mean, you can, it just makes you look like an idiot.

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Permalink Reply by Jon, Gallifrey's Mindfreak on March 7, 2013 at 5:20pm

She technically censoring EVERYONE who wants to comment/rate her video, but I see your point.

Her comments on her blog are being moderated, but she doesn't seem to be dead set on silencing her critics.  Hence this quote from one of the commentators:

Look, if women are portrayed as weak in games, it’s only because you’re weaklings in real life. Face it – men are stronger and better than you. Deal with it! LOL!

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Permalink Reply by Joong on March 7, 2013 at 5:41pm

Where is that comment exactly? I went to her blog/twitter and nowhere did I saw her addressing or even acknowledge any response whatsoever.

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Permalink Reply by Jon, Gallifrey's Mindfreak on March 7, 2013 at 5:54pm

Hmmm, it seems to have vanished....

My mistake, carry on.

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Permalink Reply by MDS on March 7, 2013 at 5:46pm

Well, let's see... her FIRST example of Dinosaur Planet completely IGNORES the fact that while Rare was working on the game, they were forced BY NINTENDO to make the game their way shortly before being sold to Microsoft to work on Xbox and Kinect games only.

Second, she spends TWO MINUTES giving the history of "damsel in distress" concept being used for 1000's of years including ancient Greek mythology... only to claim that it was Popeye in the 1930's and King Kong the movie that would be used as "foundational element in video games"? Sorry, but it's kind of hard to see a concept from Greek Mythology being used in video games ONLY because of movies/cartoons from the 1930's as why it's in video games.

Third, use of Mario's "princess Peaches" as an example.... and example of "damsel in distress" in which the game's FANBASE are saying they are tired of Peaches being just an "excuse" for Mario to do anything and not used as a valid character on her own. (Kind of like picking on toilet paper for smelling like shit when it's designed to wipe your ass anyway.)

Fourth, after ragging on Peaches and her "damsel in distress" status, she mentions that she's been a character in other Mario games... but completely DISMISSES her character because the other Mario games aren't in the "platformer" format?

Fifth, she uses "objectification" as a reason for the "damsel in distress" concept as merely the "trophy to be won" instead of admitting that almost 90% of the time, the reason that the main hero goes after the "damsel in distress" is because she's a loved one (Mother, Sister, Wife, Girlfriend, Friend from childhood) or that roughly 8% of the time it's because of being ordered to or sense of duty (Rescue Mission or it's the character's fault they were taken) while only roughly 2% of the time it's some random female that the main character has never heard of or seen that is taken and he feels "responsible/obligated" to attempt a rescue.

Sixth, she goes on about "Damsel in Distress" concepts including aspects such as "victim", "heroic rescue" and "smooch of victory" (okay, smooch part maybe)... but victim/rescue/victory are aspects of an ENGAGING STORY since humans first learned to speak and pass stories on by story-telling to each other. Not to mention the fact that she goes on to mention that the "damsel in distress" may have female characters that are able to fight on their own, have good qualities in general, or may not even be rescued at all by the hero but DIE.... and yet, this doesn't matter one bit because it's all about "to being reduced to helplessness simply for the male charater's hero arch).

Seventh, again.... focuses on a character who has only been seen as a "damsel in distress" that even the FANBASE have spoken out about wanting the character to actually BE MORE than just the same 'damsel in distress" over and over... Princess Zelda. Kind of hard to use this example of "damsel in distress" when the fanbase is VOCAL ABOUT CHANGING IT.

Eighth, claiming that the current market of "game nostalgia" and re-releasing older games on newer platforms as a "promotion of damsel in distress trope" instead of simply as a game company trying to make money and stay in business in general.

Ninth, after almost 22 minutes (modifies stance at 21:55 of video) of bad-mouthing the whole "Damsel in distess" trope, she turns right around and says "all games that use the trope are sexist"? Well, actually you ARE because you turn right around within 30 seconds and say that the games that use this trope are still being "toxic and patronizing" toward women.

This is what's wrong with Anita Sarkeesian. She presents a well produces video that makes sense, except that it's NOT OBJECTIVE IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER..... It's produced, written, presented, released and promoted WITH AN AGENDA. There is no chance to counter-point any of her "points" in regards to what she is saying. This isn't a "debate or discussion" about the video game industry, but simply one person's point of view that is basically a thesis statement that has been gaining her both fame (good or bad) and money. That the whole thing is "Copyrighted" under HER OWN NAME and not some kind of company or foundation should give you an idea of what she is really all about.... her OWN INTERESTS.

Basically, it's kind of hard to take anything this particular female says.... because, she has an agenda-based platform and that's it. It's like going to Fox News and then wondering why they have so many "republican talking points".

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Permalink Reply by MDS on March 7, 2013 at 6:21pm

she turns right around and says " NOT all games that use the trope are sexist"? **

Sorry, couldn't edit the post, so had to change that part of the 9th point. Sorry, my mistake.

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Permalink Reply by LAC on March 7, 2013 at 6:54pm

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Permalink Reply by LunaticLMD on March 7, 2013 at 6:45pm

I saw a few minutes of the video and she reaffirmed my previous beliefs that she isn't worth the time of day.

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Permalink Reply by Jon, Gallifrey's Mindfreak on March 7, 2013 at 6:45pm

ALright, having finished the video I have a few comments:

1.  If I'm not mistaken, weren't there two protagonists in the original version of Dinosaur Planet?  A male and a female Fox?

2.  The Mario franchise has dozens of characters who could have filled the spot for "floating sprite".  Peach being in Super Mario 2 was far from an accident.

3.  Why exactly aren't we talking about Princess Peach's own game now?  Come to think of it, why aren't we talking about the non-platform Mario games where Peach is actually a playable character and proves to be more than a simple damsel in distress.  Like when she's captured in the Paper Mario games, she manages to find a way to help Mario from her cage.  In fact, in Super Mario 3D Land Peach manages to escape from Bowser on her own!!  

4.  As MDS said, doesn't Nintendo's audience want more from Zelda and Peach?

5.  I could be wrong, but isn't the Double Dragon opening only iconic today because the world openly acknowledges how insanely sexist it is?

6.  Speaking of, I also think it's unfair to call out old arcade/NES games for being sexist.  It was a time when games were in their infancy.  They didn't really have the time or memory to go into detail about the damsel in distress.  The Double Dragon opening for example: sexist or not (though it probably is) you understand what's happening in the game in under fifteen seconds.  Gang members have kidnapped your girlfriend, you don't need to explain why!  Go rescue her!!

I've always had problems with these kinds of sexism arguments.  As MDS has said, I don't feel these are blatant examples of sexism as much as they are engaging storyetlling.  Yeah, some can be considered sexism, but there are many games out there who reverse the trope.  Elaine Marley from the Monkey Island games is a perfect example (though it seems she will be talking about her in the next episode).

I enjoyed the video, it makes one think about this sort of thing.  However, I don't see why Mario rescuing his girlfriend from a demon turtle has to be construed as an attack against women's ability to do anything.  Why can't Mario just be rescuing his girlfriend because he loves her?

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Permalink Reply by Monkey Magic on March 7, 2013 at 9:43pm

1.  If I'm not mistaken, weren't there two protagonists in the original version of Dinosaur Planet?  A male and a female Fox?

I don't know. Doesn't really matter though. It's not like she got the kicked out of the spotlight because she's a female though. She was demoted because they'd rather have a recognizable and established character in the lead role. That's all.

2.  The Mario franchise has dozens of characters who could have filled the spot for "floating sprite".  Peach being in Super Mario 2 was far from an accident.

This. Also, Peach is arguably the best character in Super Mario 2. (Floating and shit.)

3.  Why exactly aren't we talking about Princess Peach's own game now?  Come to think of it, why aren't we talking about the non-platform Mario games where Peach is actually a playable character and proves to be more than a simple damsel in distress.  Like when she's captured in the Paper Mario games, she manages to find a way to help Mario from her cage.  In fact, in Super Mario 3D Land Peach manages to escape from Bowser on her own!! 

There are several reasons:

1. Anita has obviously never played half the games shown, and I wouldn't be surprised if she got less than halfway through the ones she did.
2. Anita is biased, and not covering both sides of the argument.
3. Anita probably didn't do enough research to know that Peach's role has increased significantly in recent games. (As she thinks tvtropes is a good source.)

  As MDS said, doesn't Nintendo's audience want more from Zelda and Peach?

See above.

5.  I could be wrong, but isn't the Double Dragon opening only iconic today because the world openly acknowledges how insanely sexist it is?

I wouldn't even call it sexist given the final scene where she gets to punch the dude in the balls?(I doubt Anita even knows about this, as she probably didn't finish the game.)  I thought she was all about equality? It's sexist when a man hits a women, but not when that same woman hits her captor in the balls?

Okay.

Speaking of, I also think it's unfair to call out old arcade/NES games for being sexist.  It was a time when games were in their infancy.  They didn't really have the time or memory to go into detail about the damsel in distress.  The Double Dragon opening for example: sexist or not (though it probably is) you understand what's happening in the game in under fifteen seconds.  Gang members have kidnapped your girlfriend, you don't need to explain why!  Go rescue her!!

Exactly. It's not some woman hating agenda, it's just a quick set up for a game held back storytelling-wise by the technology of the time. It's meant to give the player some motivation, and fast. It has nothing to do with the kidnapped character being female. If it had been a brother or best friend, it would have been just as effective.

Is it brutal? Yes. Sexist? No.

Why can't Mario just be rescuing his girlfriend because he loves her?

Because a man being in love with a woman is forbidden in out patriarchal society.

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