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Permalink Reply by Nightshadow on March 23, 2012 at 5:22pm

Shouldn't the title of this be "I now hate Nolan, Burton and Schumacher", seeing how none of these directors have given you a "Good detective batman film"? Why do you just hate Nolan?

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Permalink Reply by Panda on March 24, 2012 at 3:01pm

I'm lazy.

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Permalink Reply by Clearsky38 on March 24, 2012 at 1:46am

What makes a "Good detective batman film"? I always thought of the movies as their own thing, separate from the comics. Do you mean like a Noir style detective film?

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Permalink Reply by Panda on March 24, 2012 at 3:00pm

Yes.

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Permalink Reply by Gift of the Magi on March 24, 2012 at 9:09pm

simple, direct...I approve.

Nolan's Batman is pretty much a standard action flick with a guy in costume. He stripped down all the intellectual parts of Batman (who is suppose to be one of the world's smartest men) and turned him into a martial artist with parent issues.

Now before you jump, YES the Burton version was more about the detective. They at least attempted to show that Batman could figure things out on his own, as well as develop cures. Unfortunately, he was played a bit more as a scientist than detective...but at least the bit about digging into Jack Napier's past showed some effort.

but Nolan....his Batman needs a whole cast and Morgan Freeman to do the brain work for him, while he runs about punching people and being mopey. this is one of MANY reason why I not only found TDK kinda...meh...but I am NOT looking forward to TDKR. I just see more of the same...Batman is a costumed-emo-Cap wannabe fighting a war again a masked homeless guy. Just feels...less epic. less interesting. less dynamic.....or in other words....boring.

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Permalink Reply by Mallen 171 on March 28, 2012 at 7:04pm

yeah the dark knight was the most boring movie ever and was only about the action

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Permalink Reply by J. Moriarty on March 25, 2012 at 1:16am

Each person who has either written or directed batman has had their own interpretation of it. From Frank Miller to Tim Burton. If what Nolan does isn't your cup of tea, then so be it. It's not meant for everyone, just like the Burton films aren't or the Schumaker films.

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Permalink Reply by Gift of the Magi on March 25, 2012 at 7:36pm

I think the debate here is less if the films are good or not, and more if they portray Batman correctly.

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Permalink Reply by J. Moriarty on March 26, 2012 at 2:32am

But the problem there is that there are so many portrayals of Batman from being a Detective to a wise-cracking comedy (Adam West). How can anyone justify one being more correct over the other when each incarnation has had a lot of history behind it, especially Nolan's Batman now. In the span between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, it's built a history as rich as any other adaptation of the Caped Crusader? It's going to be subjective in the end; one portrayal will be favorable to one person, whereas another will be favored by another.

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Permalink Reply by Gift of the Magi on March 26, 2012 at 8:16pm

the West Batman portrays the character AT THE TIME, which was goofy as hell (geezz, the Zebra costume story or the one centered around the Joker dropping a totem pole on Batman is enough evidence), so his Batman was VERY accurate. AND if you watched thenshow and film, he DID use his brain to figure out clues and discover the plot...even if a bit goofy.

Burton's Batman was a bit more Miller/Death in the Family, when the comics were turning strongly toward a more serious character with a gothic slant. And again, in these films, Batman used his brain to discover the plot, figure out who was involved and how to stop it. So yes he was a detective here too, especially with the Napier backstory and figuring out how to stop the Smile-X poison.

Schumaker can go to hell, got nothing good to say there.

Nolan takes the basic idea of Batman, drops nearly everything aboutnhis history or skills, and reduces him down to a normal man with serious issues and too much money. He's not especially smart or talented, just driven. he ignores the comics and source material which ALLOWS for a guy in a costume to do what he does, and puts him in a world that honestly would have had him discovered and arrested in hours. And worst of all, he is NOT a detective. he's a martial artist.

Batman's main label is WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE! WTF, Nolan?

the point? Inprevious versions, the films at least remembered and used the Batman of the times, complete with his detective skills. Nolan DID NOT.

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Permalink Reply by J. Moriarty on March 27, 2012 at 11:33am

He's not a detective? What about how he figured out where the other drugs were going by interrogating Flass? Interrogation is an investigative technique, and while it only happened in one scene it did do the trick, as well as when he interrogates Carmine in TDK. Nolan does show the detective side, (Bullet analysis anyone) but it's not the focal point of his movies.

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Permalink Reply by Gift of the Magi on March 30, 2012 at 8:05pm

Actually, thank you for bringing this up. The two scenes you mention illustrate another issue with the films that I have and I think Ms. b hit on it in a backhanded sort of way.

Nolan created a realistic world and tried to adapt Batman into it. In doing so, he negated many of the established troupes and themes that allow such a character to exist in the first place. Thus, Batman's MO of threatening pain and death to criminals would have created HUGE problems for the police and likely put Bats under FBI investigation...at which any story you try to tell would go out the window.

the bullet analysis...ugh....folks, that scene was about as sci-fi as you can get. For a film shooting for realism, showing Batman with a computer that can reconstruct and read a tiny fragment to get a fingerprint good enough to identify someone in minutes...is jarring. If it had been the 60s version or Burton's, then maybe. but not Nolan.

Interrogation can be an investigative technique IF use properly. it is NOT the hallmark of a detective though. Instead of that, if they showed him going through files, checking backgrounds, interviewing witnesses and doing surveilence into the Joker's background, slowly building a picture for him AND US of who and what the Joker is, then I think the character would have become more real and interesting. Instead, he just beat him up. ugh.

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